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 Post subject: Re: Why "Super Mechs" sucks now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:57 am 
First Lieutenant
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Guys, I'm a step ahead of you and took the liberty to email Alexander about this. This was only like maybe a week ago? Anyway, this is what Alexander had to say. (I don't think he will mind me sharing, But if he does he can take appropriate action). Full convo nothing, out of context. Just thought I'd share since everyone is dying to see the thoughts of the SM team on this (as they never reply on the forums about these issues). Also guys please try to work with them, not against them. I see a lot of unneeded hostility and insulting. That will get us no where.

Me: Alexander, could you be so kind as to give me Lirans email, so I can contact him?

Him: Hello,
Could you tell us why you'd like to speak him?
Liran is very very busy these days and has specifically been forwarding mails away since he can't answer them much anymore!

Me: Ah! That sucks. Hmmmm. I was hoping i could speak to him personally regarding the current state of the game. There are several issues that need resolving and they seem to be put off/ignored.
Many players are disappointed, even disgusted with how broken the game is at the moment. Everyone says it's Liran. "Liran this", "Liran that". So I figured I'd try to help him, or at least inform him of these issues.
I don't want to stick my nose in or intrude. I don't even know the development team or if it's just him. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?
Regardless of that, me and MANY other players want a more balanced game. Everyone misses making creative builds. But now only a few builds are viable for competitive play. We really want some changes made.
I myself don't mind helping. It'd be nice to know what's going on over there, and even better if we could resolve these issues.

Him: Sorry to hear you feel that way.
Could you explain what you mean? Anything in specific you'd like to see? We'd really like any feedback you may have!
Liran used to be one of 2/3 developers. Currently he's 1 in a team of about 14.

While we do see some problems (some of which you pointed out!) that we've been slowly but steadily fixing for a long time (though obviously theres much more coming), overall I'd say the game has improved a lot though!
Did you know that a year ago, there was no campaign (you just clicked an image and got a battle), no free tokens at all, no mythical boxes (just gold, with only 1/3th the current myth chances), no cooldown/regeneration or max damage, no 2v2/3v3 battles, a very bad UI (well, still OK, but not close to this), no android or iOS version, no player search features, no daily bonus etc etc ? :)
By all means, SM has a lot of work left ahead of it, but overall with many times as many players as well I'd like to think we've come a very long way in the positive direction. :)

Me: Alright 14 people that's more than enough.
So I've spoken to many players and done some research on the forums. Apparently the game was a lot better 1 year ago or so.
The main thing we need right now is rebalancing the mythical items. This takes priority over everything else. The older mythicals are rubbish and some new ones are rather overpowered. This has caused some problems. The main one is that it's killed creativity. There are 2 - 4 meta builds, and only those are viable for competitive play. Back in the day you could make some good mechs without having to recycle someone else's build. Again, many mythicals need to be updated, they just dont see play.
If we balanced them all out, we could enjoy more diversity and challenge in the game. Many people have said this on the forums already, there are multiple threads about it. People have given some solid critiques and advice on what needs to be buffed and what needs to be nerfed. I can pitch some decent ideas too, but I want other players to have a say in it. I don't want any bias either. I understand how difficult it is to make new items into the game and keep everything balanced.
Anyway that's the main problem at hand. There are a few other small ones like brining the shop back, but this current issue is speak of is really hurting the game. The last thing you want is meta builds. It makes the game very boring very quickly. I've seen other great games go down in quality or just become less enjoyable because of that.
I really want to make some progress on this and I hope something can be worked out, many players say the game isn't the same anymore. And I just got here, so learning this is a little disappointing you know?

Him: Originally this game had no official staff - it was paid for by Battle Dawn and had no serious in game purchasing.
Obviously this had to change if it was to keep growing, but this turned players back then fairly angry (it's nice when another game pays for yours :P).

It's been 5 years since, and the game has changed a huge amount, but I fear people generally copy the old guard. They see how others respond and copy it - this means for example that somehow when we put a small mythical chance in free boxes, people rioted and claimed we were ripping them off by not making it higher (?!) and in general a lot of (overall very well liked) updates take a lot of hate. When our rating climbs to 4.7 in an update yet some players claim the game is now "dead" compared to what it was with less then a 20th the players and a rating closer to 3...
Yeah...
We're working on a large effort to fully re-do the community, a part of this is to hopefully make things a bit more positive.
Please help us on this and think positively. Don't let a few people ruin that. :)

The game does have problems - right now it's about getting certain items and not your mech. This is an issue. We're working on this and a lot of our updates recently have worked on reducing it bit by bit. Sadly this was always the case - people even used to make guides on which exact mech to build and even worse, at some point we made a feature to see the latest builds.. It shouldn't be about this - I 100% agree. It needs to be about YOUR awesome mech, you shouldn't need to feel like you need X or Y item, or even a mythical or whatever. The game needs to be fun for every player - and we are/have been hard at work on that. As mentioned, this entire campaign is new (and also going to be improved more!), we added much more different kinds of builds (by adding new mechanics) and have taken an important first step as well (disconnecting players a bit from items they don't have).
Balance not new by the way - even 2-3 years people were furious about some items which we ended up nerfing like we always do. When releasing a new item every week, you're bound to end up nerfing a few. :)
The thing is - even after huge nerfs, people figure out new top builds and... everyone just kind of copies the top players. You don't? You're a newb! Go copy one! It's partially psychological.
How many battles do you win on a 50 hp difference? Even assuming they are all perfect (and they often aren't), there is definitely a space still for different builds too if you look!
People consistently rank some players top who refuse to copy builds as well. :)
So yes - we do have a lot more planned to make the game structurally more enjoyable and I hope you'll join us on that course.
Unlike what some may tell you, the game has gained 8x the players over just some months and there are very large (very happy) groups as well. But a combination of happy people generally being more quiet and an unfortunately fairly negative (for years now) top layer... well...
It's more fun to think of all the awesome things you can have and are getting, don't you think ? :) We've a long road ahead of us, and I am sure we will break a lot more (and make the game a lot better!).

_________________
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Hello incompetent admins/devs
Add back color kits
Add access to low level items
Remove pads
Balance mythicals
Etc


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 Post subject: Re: Why "Super Mechs" sucks now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:54 pm 
First Lieutenant
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EnderProf wrote:
Guys.
We have all come far and in a year this game has become a lot better, stop the whining and make a move.

Go e-mail with the staff and stay friendly, open-minded and of course: make solid arguments, then judge if a change is REALLY needed.

They wont do anything.

EnderProf wrote:
I know, I know, some myths need to be nerfed, but just wait it out:
Meltdown was OP at the beginning, so was ultraspade.
Now it is trash...
Same will happen for Lava spray and God mode, there will be higher numbers eventually and new meta's will be a thing.

The problem with this is that instead of all myth items being balanced there will always be an inbalance that eventually gets solved by future inbalances. By this logic the legendary torsos a year from now will be better than ultraspade. There are already some legendary weapons that are better alternatives to using the mythical items.

EnderProf wrote:
You shouldnt buff/nerf, you should find a meta against OP mechs, and with the right items im sure you could do it.

Some times that doesn't always work. Sometimes they aren't nearly effective or consistent enough to actually be usable.

EnderProf wrote:
You can outplay a double breaker and ultranova mech, just by keeping them close.

Shotgun/stomp FTW. Also this only really works for heat mechs, not so much any one else...The point is I've won countless battles without firing the main guns.

EnderProf wrote:
or a double lava spray by killing them fast.

How are u gonna kill em fast when all they need is like 3 moves to set up...? Part of setting up is getting u close so ur stuck there... Also without the mythical cooldown items gg basically. Not fair at all.

EnderProf wrote:
it's all just an "illusion" that you can't beat them, i've seen people beat strong meta mechs by designing a perfect meta against those.

Well of course you can beat them. I have possibly the highest win lose ratio in the game, 28 losses total. I do lose, no mech is perfect. But line that 28 losses vs 1000+ wins? Ehrr that's bloody overpowered. No ifs, ands or buts. So whatever anti-meta mech there is lacks sufficient power or consistency in this current format. This is nothing more than a lazy excuse to keep things the way they are. Rebalancing the myth items would be a better solution and have many more positive effects.

EnderProf wrote:
If you still think there will be buffs/nerfs needed, go E-mail the staff with respect. do not go on the forums and start a war against the devs.

Hmmm I wonder who gave you that idea? Regardless, seems like a good idea to use.
Thank you.

32Gaming wrote:
Technically, all Mythical Items have the same value because they all have the same chance of getting obtained out of an item box. You have just as much chance of getting an Electro Cop as getting a God Mode. This means that if someone literally spends over 100$ on this game they can get nothing but USELESS myths. The fact is that some Myths DEFINITELY need rebalancing and hearing you say: "Hurr Durr, all Myths are fine as they are" is just pathetic. Don't just say absurd stuff please, some Myths are in obvious need of nerfs/buffs.


Right, this is also important. I've had to spend a disgusting amount of money to get the items I need. This is because so many items flat out suck. Half of my inventory is unwanted mythical items. Many players only have these items as their mythicals that they get for free. What are they supposed to do? Just make another 10 accounts till they get something decent? Wrong. Without spending money there is virtually nothing decent to play. The fact that not all mythicals are created equal causes huge negative effects to players. It's ruining the game. No questions asked, it's a fact.

Now that it has been established that it's a fact, I suggest we start working on this immediately.

Devs? Admins? How to do you guys want to start? We're here to work with you if anything.

_________________
Image
Hello incompetent admins/devs
Add back color kits
Add access to low level items
Remove pads
Balance mythicals
Etc


Last edited by PoTaeToh on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "Super Mechs" sucks now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:33 pm 
Specialist
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winglet789 wrote:
I bet im going to end up being banned like WarrMachine if i say this , but who cares about playing this game anyway if all you see during your gameplay are the current OP meta twin breaker and ultra nova mechs anyway , here are my personal thoughts

1: Why the kits are removed ? as you can see on one of my post before , i found a method to adjust your mech to have a better cooldown method with kits , since they are removed , either you get heat controls or accept roasted to death with lava sprays which you see everywhere now

2:Theres no such thing as Building your own mech , all you do is spend tokens and follow one of the most OP mech out there , using anything else other than the current OP meta mechs will end up with loses instead

3: Heat mechs : Long before , having 85-95 cooldown is considered good since the existence of the non energy consumption axes/hammers and lava sprays , you need atleast 150 cooldown per turn if you wanna survive , how do you get this rediculous cooldown ? heat controls ofcourse ! Since the existence of the weapons mentioned above , you are literaly forced to get heat controls or accept your to lose every time you see lava sprays

4: Energy mechs : Back then , energy mechs use a big consume of their own energy to drain the enemy and deal extra damage , since the existence of the electro piercing shotgun and electric mass , you dont

5:Physical mechs : Undefeatable ,No need for energy , no worries about cooldown , by the time you drain physical mechs's energy bar to zero he already dragged 2/3 of your HP bar

6:You cant do anything to improve yourself if you dont own any important items
Example : Heat controls , god mode , the meta evil drones , ect

7:The mythical vault is huge , yet 75% items in it are complete trash items
Examples : Cooldown/regen blockers , yoshimo legs ,needle blasters,death punch , Heat/Energy Piercing shotgun mk3, sparks , meltdown, electric discharger , generator breaker, Any mythical torso other than god mode

8:Mythicals are important for your mechs to fight others , but you cant stand a chance fighting against other people without a full mythical mechs
Devs : We already give people chances to get free mythical chances
Answer : By the time you already gather enough myths for a proper good meta mech , 10 more OP meta myths are already released making the mech that you spent your time building become complete trash and outdated

9:Hackers + more glitches are starting to be a problem on SM now
Example : Ryan/Ken ramos

Those are my personal thoughts , im just gonna sit here and wait for me to be banned like WarrMachine , sorry for any typo mistakes i did , im not really that good in english language

PS : I love apples
Yep, couldn't have said it better.

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The Last Original Build...


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 Post subject: Re: Why "Super Mechs" sucks now
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:20 am 
Lieutenant Major
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EnderProf wrote:
... do not go on the forums and start a war against the devs.

I see no "war" :!:

I see constructive criticism :!:

And of course ...
- devs should be able to seperate between just "hate - writers" and players who care about this game (with constructive criticism)
- devs know more about this game, then we can imagine (analysis programs, statistics, etc.)


As Alexander answered, it is correct that the game changed a lot, also a lot to the good side for the players :!:

All new stuff :


- daily bonus (changed to the positiv for players)
- gift keys (more free stuff)
- free tokens (changed to the positiv for players)
- free items (changed to the positiv for players)
- achievements (changed to the positiv for players)
- campaign (changed to the positiv for players)
- free boxes sometimes
- chances for mythicals raised (changed to the positiv for players)


So here some points to think about (for players and developers) ...

- this game running cost a lot (staff, developers, servers, software, office, etc)
- of course tacticsoft wants to make as much money as possible
- new mythicals/items are coming (only thing tacticsoft can make enough money over a long term
- there will always be some weapons, which are the best ones (otherwise all weapons would do the same damage, a 100% balance is not possible or we would have all only 1 weapon with same damage)

... and now here are
2 points (contructive criticism), where the main problems are right now :

- weapons become stronger and stronger (just think of all coming Mark III series)

Years back the weapons did max 40 - 60 damage (or maybe a little more, except shotgun), so its logic here is a main problem.
Now weapons do +200 damage (incl. sub floors, which one are "new" also).

* less turns (shorter and shorter battles every time a new strong weapon is released)
* that result in less strategy and less skills needed (for all, new or veteran)


Solution for that problem :
RAISE the HP a lot (much better HP moduls) or
one or two more module slots (as Liran did one time before already)
raise the weight, that players are able to use this "extra" modules


- more and more mythicals overall, what means it will be harder and harder to find the mythical you want out of boxes (nobody want to spend 100$ or more for mythicals you dont need or you cannot use)

Solution for that problem :
RAISE a lot the chances for mythicals not in inventory or
give us a way to BUY (with tokens) specific mythicals

^^ I think this is THE main problem, two sides:
- tacticsoft want to make as much money as possible, thats why chances are RELATIVE low
- players who spent real money become angry because of spending money and getting nothing usefull for it (because of the low chances for "new" mythicals)

Here my tip for tacticsoft:
Often less is more :!:
(more chances for mythical = less money for tacticsoft, but over a long term 100% more !)
Means, giving better chances, will result in MORE money, because more player are willing to spend for something they can USE !
If you hold that strategy (less chances), players will become more and more disappointed :!:


;)

P.S.: PLEASE bring back the shop for non-mythicals items, it is hard for all now, to find a specific item and also knowing which items are existings would HELP again (to compare)

P.P.S.: old Supermechs with the different LEVELS (note: items still have their levels) was MOST FUN to play
:!:

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Why "Super Mechs" sucks now
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:38 am 
First Lieutenant
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I like the way bestof was going... continuing the growth of the game. She's been pretttyyyy long, so she may have some of the best ideas, just from watching what tactisoft has done, and seeing what works and doesnt work.

However I disagree with something she said, which I think was a misunderstanding.
I am not suggesting we make all the myths just as good as the other, so each weapon is the same or same in power. No. We want different strategies, and different weapons that can be used competitively. Sure some are going to be better than others, that's always a given, but the disparity between them should be relatively low. This way while some are better, they aren't so much better that the other ones become unplayable. That is what has happened. Also another thing with Bestof's idea is that older mythicals will stay the way they are, and stay useless. Unacceptable. Mythical items aren't like other items. They are the rarest, and most sought after. You usually have to pay money for them. Getting useless ones is something that no one wants to bear. We should watch the mythical vault and make sure all items stay more or less within an acceptable range from each other. Sure we might have to do lots of buffs and nerfs but whatever is best for the game should be considered.

_________________
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Hello incompetent admins/devs
Add back color kits
Add access to low level items
Remove pads
Balance mythicals
Etc


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